2014 and beyond..

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2014 and beyond..

Post by TheJones on Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:03 am

Happy New year to one and all.

I've just returned from my annual New Year break to Powys, and Ive found it very interesting indeed.

Look, Im happy to confirm that Im an exile, I travel some 300 miles or so, return, to watch the O's and about 240 miles, return to my club in Powys, although Im from Tredegar.

The club I support has confirmed to me that relationships with the WRU has never been better, I was surprised but have taken on face value and also had further confirmation.

The regions v WRU, well its a view on who you believe - in the end the WRU make a load of money and pay off a huge mortgage, the regions couldn't commercially run a childrens birthday party. Do the regions deserve more cash, of course they do and so they should - but until they stop behaving like old style club rugby then it will not change.

I am not against the old club style system, not at all, but when regions are formed when really they are basically 3 clubs and Swansea/Neath then what do you expect.

I watch my rugby, from much distance and many service stations, but we look like village idiots outside of Wales.

Fingers need to be removed, business people need to be involved and supporters groups placed on every regional board. That makes sense to me.

Its not all about how bad the WRU are; its wider than that....
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by Old Parish on Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:53 am

I must say that I agree with all of this mate. I don't know who to believe to be honest, everything you read is just "he said, she said" it seems to me.

At some level I am convinced that all parties want what is best for Welsh rugby, that we have a huge pool of talented players and also a huge number of committed people at all levels who just want the game to succeed.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:39 pm

I've said it before and it's worth repeating, exiles have one view we have another.
For the exile, the Team Wales thing is absolute and as a one time exile, I fully understand that. In England if that's where you're based you will rarely hear anything about Welsh rugby unless they talk about the "Seltic League", all their focus is on their league ( nothing wrong there) and the 6 Nations. But here in Wales we can all see that the regions appear to have brought massive improvements to the game here in Wales, no longer do we get whipped by teams from Ireland, Scotland, England and France, sadly this year only the Ospreys are in with any chance of competing at the end. Meanwhile, Team Wales has improved immeasurebly and is slowly getting to a position where it looks competitive even against the SH teams. That was unthinkable in 2000.
Non of it happened by chance, and yes it's true that the regions are a mess and could do more, but to call for business men to be called in is surely disingenuous, who does the Jones think is running the regions? Terry Matthews aint no mug let me assure you.
Most regional fans, myself included, rarely if ever go to the MS these days, we leave that pleasure to others who can afford the massively inflated prices , we get our rugby "fix" on a weekly basis watching regional rugby.
For those who don't know, please read this.

Saturday 4th January 2013

THE FACTS
Regional Rugby Wales on behalf of the four Welsh regions, the Scarlets, the Ospreys, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues issues the following statement in order to establish important facts and provide clarity regarding the future of Welsh regional rugby.

The Rugby Champions Cup will bring the biggest increase of funding into the Welsh game in five years. It will increase funding to the Irish clubs and protect the Scottish clubs. Bringing in £12m in three years into the Welsh game does not threaten the Six Nations or bring about its demise.

In only two months, the Welsh Regions have themselves, negotiated the biggest increase in funding for Welsh Rugby of the last five years and are simply asking the WRU as the governing body for support in this.

The WRU not only has full responsibility, but is also contractually obliged to negotiate competition revenues and TV distribution revenues under the Participation Agreement. The WRU has failed miserably to negotiate equitable and fair revenue distribution for Welsh clubs in line with clubs in England and France.

The ERC Accord finishes this year and the WRU’s latest proposal for a replacement to exclude the English clubs includes six undefined French clubs and maintains an unequal distribution of revenue to the Welsh clubs. Given the other opportunities that now exist, it is an inferior competition. The proposed competition would only be available on Sky TV, not terrestrial television, as is the case with the existing European competition.

It’s disappointing that the WRU’s disrespectful response to another significant and positive proposal from the Regions (as it was to the real PRGB last year) is once again to engage in a vitriolic and disingenuous attack on the Welsh Regions; with the purpose of detracting attention away from the real issues Welsh regional rugby is facing and that need addressing urgently.

The Regions would question why the WRU are scaremongering about a break away. This has never been mentioned by the Regions who have only asked for positive support as outlined in their most recent statement of 31st December. As stated then; it continues to be the absolute intent and strong desire of RRW and the Regions to work with the WRU in progressing such a positive position for the next five years of professional Rugby in Wales, or indeed to discuss any proposals WRU themselves may have that could provide an even stronger platform for sustainable and competitive professional rugby across Wales.

It is incredulous to the Welsh Regions that the WRU refused to discuss any item in the current Participation Agreement before its deadline of 31st December but is now willing to offer a “new agreement” on different terms. Equally it is yet to be explained by the WRU why bringing an additional £12m into the game by the Regions, is not in the best interests of Welsh rugby.

It would seem from the recent correspondence from the WRU to clubs in Wales that their focus is all about control and not the best interests of Welsh rugby.

RRW and the Regions, through no choice of their own, have been forced to consider every alternative to secure a sustainable future for regional rugby in Wales; and have worked tirelessly to be able to plan their futures positively based on new options in the absence of any concrete proposals on income and distribution for Europe or the PRO12 league.

The proposed “one-off payment” of £1m for the recruitment, retention and development of Welsh international players was always linked to a requirement for the Regions to sign an extension to the Participation Agreement. In the Regions view, it was purely a hollow stunt because it always carried impossible conditions.

ENDS
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by Old Parish on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:50 am

I have read that statement from the Regions, and I don't doubt that they have some genuine concerns and grievances. It is the idea that all right is on one side and all problems come from the other side that is impossible to swallow.

The Regions obviously help develop young players into internationals, but the idea that this is all their work is a bit ridiculous. The regions benefit from the conveyor belt of young guys who start at clubs. Look at the current Wales U18 squad, that is the pool where the regions will looking to for future players, but they had nothing at all to do with developing most of them.

I guess you saw the article today describing what the clubs think of the regions ... it is not flattering. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-crisis-rugby-clubs-6468100

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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:53 am

I'd bet a rats arse that the clubs would hate the regions, but look at where that story emanates from.
I'll never defend the regions for the sake of it, but as a clear Team Wales man tell me this, at the Ospreys the U18 are directly employed by the region ( with a little help from the WRU), who is it that then PLACES those players with feeder clubs? Yes it's a two way street, can it be any different? Personally I've never heard of a region that claims that they MAKE any player, it is a street. The clubs ought to need the regions and vice versa and in turn Team Wales ought to need the regions. Only a fool would doubt that.

If all the fault does lie with the regions, look at Ireland for proof of that the Team Wales supporters say. I say look at Scotland, there the two teams get far less support than the Welsh regions do rarely do better in the Pro12 or Heineken, but far exceed the buying power of the Welsh regions when it comes to recruitment.

Team Wales supporters seem to think that simply by returning to the old club system all will be well............bloody good luck then I say.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by Old Parish on Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:34 am

It doesn't say anywhere in that article that all the fault lies with the regions, and I certainly didn't say it.

It is just so obvious that the parts are all inter-connected and need each other.

Success at national level will increase interest among kids to play mini rugby and junior rugby. The national team needs the players to be progressed by the regions. The regions need to develop players, and need clubs to help them do that. Without people at club level who just play because they enjoy it, with no higher aspirations, there are no teams for those young guys to develop in. Without volunteers who do all the bits and pieces around the clubs there are no matches for those teams to play in ... and so on. If any part of that fails then the whole thing suffers badly, maybe fatally.

People are now so far down in their bunkers that they have lost perspective completely it seems to me.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by TheJones on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:29 am

Old Parish wrote:It doesn't say anywhere in that article that all the fault lies with the regions, and I certainly didn't say it.

It is just so obvious that the parts are all inter-connected and need each other.

Success at national level will increase interest among kids to play mini rugby and junior rugby. The national team needs the players to be progressed by the regions. The regions need to develop players, and need clubs to help them do that. Without people at club level who just play because they enjoy it, with no higher aspirations, there are no teams for those young guys to develop in. Without volunteers who do all the bits and pieces around the clubs there are no matches for those teams to play in ... and so on. If any part of that fails then the whole thing suffers badly, maybe fatally.

People are now so far down in their bunkers that they have lost perspective completely it seems to me.

I agree butty, I can see the regional point but when we are a people of 3,000,000 total and there are more registered rugby players in England than we have as a population it remains vital that the national side are successful. The side we have now will give us our best ever chance of RWC success - so WRU dish out some cash and regions bank it and lets move on.......
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:50 am

Old Parish <<Success at national level will increase interest among kids to play mini rugby and junior rugby>>

since regional rugby isn't that just what we have had, but strangely ( and it's born out in the AH report you quote) the number of kids has reduced drastically.

Of course the local teams are needed, but when one in that report says that his local region don't do anything for his team, I can tell you that's a lie. Last season his regional team trained at his ground TWICE, I live in the neighbouring village, but tellingly when I asked my region about putting a bus on, they told me that there were no season ticket holders further up the valley than I. I also know that my region has offered, not once but several times, to lay on a free bus for teams that sell 10 adult tickets (kids go free) with NO takers.

Yes the regions have made huge mistakes, especially in the early years. My region the Ospreys were attracting crowds upwards of 12,000 on average, but sorely failed to capitalise on that early success expecting folk to hand over hard earned cash for little reward. When that didn't work they simply shrugged their collective shoulders.

But lets remember that it was the WRU who set up the regions and made a massive mess in the process, they don't have the cash to dish out but wont allow the regions to negotiate with TV for better deals, deals that the Irish, Scots, Italians, French and English all enjoy.

Bottom line is that only dreamers will think that Wales have a snow ball in hell's chance of winning the RWC about as much chance as a region has of winning the Heineken.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by TheJones on Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:23 am

Wales do have a realistic, but outside chance of winning RWC. The regions have no chance at all of winning any meaningful European competition.

I don't believe the WRU are killing the game; but I do agree that the regions need help to avoid the abyss..
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by Old Parish on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:14 pm

dancarreg wrote:Old Parish <<Success at national level will increase interest among kids to play mini rugby and junior rugby>>

since regional rugby isn't that just what we have had, but strangely ( and it's born out in the AH report you quote) the number of kids has reduced drastically.

...

That is probably for another thread and someone who knows more than I do, but it is a general problem in UK sport and not only a rugby issue.

I think mini rugby is a success, but the number of kids who give up sport between 16-19 has grown rapidly, whatever the reason. It is not so much the elite players, they are identified and captured. It is the ones that would previously have played recreationally who fall away.

Decline of communities ... XBox/Playstation ... other priorities ... I don't know the answer but the trend is very clear.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:57 pm

Somethings gonna give, and it will be the regions.
This is Paul Rees' article in todays Guardian..........http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/05/wru-welsh-regions
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by Old Parish on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:49 pm

dancarreg wrote:Somethings gonna give, and it will be the regions.
This is Paul Rees' article in todays Guardian..........http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/05/wru-welsh-regions

Please, somebody end it ... anybody ... anyhow. We can't spend another 12 months talking about this bollocks.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:22 am

Jeff Probyn has it about right.............http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25621306

AWJ and Warburton have been "offered" to two english clubs when not on Welsh duty.

End the misery now Roger Lewis, set up your new regions, but leave me out.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:01 pm

Still waiting for the outcome of yesterdays crucial meeting. Yet again the supporters are left waiting to hear the destiny of our beloved game.

As a combined unit Welsh Rugby supporters put more money into our national game than any other organisation, without us the game, the management and the players are well and truly f-----.

We deserve a better deal from the Union, the Regions and the Clubs; they have all raped us of our cash by charging inflated prices for tickets and playing matches at times only suitable for their finances and having no consideration for those attending.

It is time we took action by boycotting the games and staying outside the turnstiles choosing a Pro 12 week end and an international week end. I am pissed off with the whole situation, our administrators are monkey brains.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:10 pm

No John, monkeys know how to survive.

I'm aware personally of at least four youngish men, presently season ticket holders at the Ospreys, who have entered their names onto the holding list for season tickets to The Swans, available after the stadium is extended. I suspect many more will follow suit.
Then are those like myself and Derek who have announced that we will not be regulars at regional rugby any more.

The truth is that those who administrate are pushing supporters away AND players. If they continue with their infantile gestures then Welsh rugby will be but a shadow in less than 10 years.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:24 am

This.............http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25640082
is good news but only if they sign.
AWJ and Adam have been offered new deals by the Ospreys.
Paul John has come on board at the Blues.
And this from the Dragons........http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25642113

It's all positive, but only if the WRU offer something genuine that the regions can grab hold of.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:16 am

Is the fact that the Regions are talking with players and staff an indication that a settlement has been agreed.

I hope they make an announcement soon, the suspense is killing me !!!
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:17 am

Dragons confirm Byrne and Brew signatures............two ways to look at this, is it just good news and proof that the WRU and regions are getting it together? Or could it be that as ONE of the new proposed regions, the Dragons are just getting in shape?
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:02 am

What ever it is, I think we deserve to be put into the light !!! Welsh Rugby deserves to open the gate to empty stadiums this week end !!!
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:39 pm

This is amongst the very last things we need right now. Moffat ballsed it up he can't be let back to do it again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25657000
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by TheJones on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:34 am

dancarreg wrote:This is amongst the very last things we need right now. Moffat ballsed it up he can't be let back to do it again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25657000

100% correct.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:19 am

No worries, by August 2014 the W.R.U. will be the Rhymney Valley Boys Club.
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:57 am

Meetings are taking place as we speak, but the future still looks bleak.

Carwyn Jones threatens to intervene..............http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25749246........oh dear!
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:43 pm

This forum seems to be dying at the same speed as the W R U !!!!!
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Re: 2014 and beyond..

Post by dancarreg on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:24 pm

I've looked on several forums and it's the same story across most, fans are rapidly losing interest.
\
Millenium Stadium to be filled with "Happy Weekenders?"
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