Beyond despair.......

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Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:56 pm

Ian Ritchie head of the RFU and fence sitter supreme, is now claiming that even the 6 nations is under threat.
Meanwhile I understand that the WRU have been in serious talks with Pontypridd, Neath and RGC1404 about taking over as representatives of Wales within the Pro12 organisation, the thinking being that having three teams in the Pro12 would free up an extra week where players could be rested.
The present four regions are actively exploring entering into an agreement with the Aviva teams to play with them exclusively for FOUR contracted years.

Money really does seem to be destroying the game i love.

Please take a few minutes to read this article.... http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/14/six-nations-championship-future-doubt


Last edited by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : an addition)
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:47 pm

Phil Bennet has now added his voice to the clamour to get thing sorted, sooner than too late. I'm already alienated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25386516
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by Old Parish on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:50 pm

dancarreg wrote:Ian Ritchie head of the RFU and fence sitter supreme, is now claiming that even the 6 nations is under threat.
Meanwhile I understand that the WRU have been in serious talks with Pontypridd, Neath and RGC1404 about taking over as representatives of Wales within the Pro12 organisation, the thinking being that having three teams in the Pro12 would free up an extra week where players could be rested.
The present four regions are actively exploring entering into an agreement with the Aviva teams to play with them exclusively for FOUR contracted years.

Money really does seem to be destroying the game i love.

Please take a few minutes to read this article.... http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/14/six-nations-championship-future-doubt

The present regions minus their international would not survive one season in the Aviva, after four years they would be somewhere down in level 3 of the pyramid without the guarantee of survival for a transition period.

So much for "meritocracy", I imagine the English clubs who beat all the regions home and away then get relegated will be well pleased.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:42 am

The longer these disputes drag on, the greater the destruction of Welsh Rugby. The W.R.U. hope for a solution by the end of the year which is far too late. By that time we will have lost so many players we would be lucky to be able to field a joint regional side capable of holding its own, let alone participate on an individual basis.

Our football clubs must be overjoyed at the situation, and wondering when the Westgate St. properties will go on the market, with the sign 'vacant possession' on the gates.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:41 pm

I think that those signs are already painted and ready to be posted.
I know that the Scarlets were exceedingly disappointed at the gate they got for the latest Heineken game, less than Connacht! And of course the Ospreys were hoping for 10/12,000 for the Castres game but got less than the Scarlets!
Proof of the pudding comes in the teams that the regions are presently capable of putting out when the internationals are absent, and it makes for very poor reading.
RRW have now called for a public inquiry, little late IMO, but if Gwyn Jones is any where near right, in three years time Wales can kiss goddbye to any meaningful games in the 6 nations ( if that still exists).
RRW statement:
REGIONAL RUGBY WALES HAS ISSUED THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF THE FOUR WELSH REGIONS:


Regional Rugby Wales, on behalf of the four Welsh Regions, have today confirmed that they are requesting an Independent Public Enquiry into the current and projected distribution of Broadcasting and Competition revenues into the Professional game in Wales.
Specifically, the Regions’ request an Independent Review to properly consider the following questions:
Why is it appropriate for the Scottish Clubs operating in the Union’s ERC competition to receive an approximate distribution of €2.45m per team when the Welsh Regions receive only €1.225m per team?
Why is it appropriate for the Italian teams operating in the same competition to receive approximately €2.3m per team?
This is the existing position and we have received no assurance that it would not continue under the new 5 Nation European Competition proposed by the Unions.
With the French clubs being able to negotiate TV revenues well in excess of €65m for their Domestic League, why is the revenue from French TV for the proposed new 5 Nation European Competition, negotiated by the Unions estimated to be only €14m?
With the English clubs being able to negotiate TV revenues of £22m from their domestic league, why are the Unions only able to achieve revenue of £5.5m for primary TV rights for the RaboDirect Pro12 league?
With the significant proposed contribution of £3.2m from Welsh television to secondary TV rights for Pro12, why is the estimated contribution from Irish TV only £910,000 and from Scottish TV only £140,000?
Based on all of the above, have imbalances or subsidies built up in TV revenues between the various International and Club competitions negotiated by the Unions and if so, how did this arise?
If this is the case, how can it be corrected going forward to ensure the Regions have the resources to retain and grow the pool of Welsh Professional players to adequately service the Professional game and the Welsh National team?
ENDS
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:29 pm

Thnx for the card Barry. There were obviously a lot more absentees from the Liberty apart from yourself, and this is going to have a huge effect on revenue. I also detect a fall off in support in this Welsh Rugby Forum, there seem to be very few active writers at the moment.
I am also a member of the London Welsh forum, and their active membership is much higher.

Another consideration when renewing membership to the Regions is that they expect your money before the fixture timing has been decided; which of course can be a problem for many people.

We can only wait and see what happens, but in reality the damage has been done.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:27 am

Here's a bit of good news for a change, but please take note of David Pickering's last sentence, BBC Wales mischief making methinks.
Wales coach Warren Gatland extends contract until 2019

Wales coach Warren Gatland has signed a contract extension to remain in charge until after the 2019 World Cup.
Gatland took over in December, 2007 and guided Wales to 2008 and 2012 Grand Slams.
He then took a sabbatical from Wales to lead the 2013 British and Irish Lions to a 2-1 series win over Australia.
The New Zealander's deal came within 24 hours of him being named BBC Sports Personality coach of 2013 for his Lions success.
WARREN GATLAND FACTFILE
1963: Born Hamilton, NZ

1980-94: Hooker for Waikato and NZ

1996-8: Connacht coach

1998-2001: Ireland coach

2002-05 : Wasps coach, Premiership champions 2003-5, Heineken Cup 2004

2006-07: Waikato coach, wins Air NZ Cup 2006

2007: Appointed Wales coach

2008: Wales win Grand Slam

2011: Wales reach World Cup semi-finals & finish fourth

2012: Wales win Grand Slam

2013: Gatland coaches Lions to series win over Australia

In a Welsh Rugby Union statement, Gatland said: "I have chosen to stay in Wales because of my confidence in the players we have, the coaching structures we have developed and the succession plan of talent we now constantly update.
"I know the other major rugby nations take us seriously as opponents who can play excellent rugby and that inspires me to take this group of players even further.
"There is an incredible amount of hard work ahead but, with the backing of the Welsh Rugby Union, the national squad now has the means to deliver what the Welsh public want.
"We have strong support systems, the international player pathway structure and the WRU National Centre of Excellence is a fantastic facility.
"Our best players now get developed within a totally professional structure and the backroom team we have in place boasts some of the best people around in their areas of expertise.
"I want to personally thank the WRU and the Welsh rugby public for the fantastic support the national squad enjoys and I aim to return the compliment by devoting all my professional energy to the success of our national team in the years ahead."
WRU chief executive Roger Lewis said: "He [Gatland] has undoubtedly proved that he has the rugby expertise, the passion and the commitment to prepare and inspire our teams to play with the utmost skill and pride for the jersey.
"We now have a meticulous and professional coaching structure in place which Warren must take credit for creating.
"By signing him for a further four years we have ensured that the systems now in place will continue to develop for the future of the international game in Wales."
David Pickering, the WRU chairman added: "He [Gatland] operates in one of the toughest sporting environment and has the strength of will to accept and relish the challenge to meet the high standards the Welsh rugby public demands.
"Welsh rugby is fit for purpose both on and off the field to meet the challenges which lie ahead."

Most of the forums for Welsh rugby are exceedingly quiet which I guess reflects the general apathy that is now surrounding the game here, when the interest goes it's like an old plumber ( I'm a retired one) once said to me"It can take a lifetime to make a reputation but just one minute to lose it."
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:52 am

Not all is well across the dyke, Gloucester coached by ex Wales and Scarlets coach Nigel Davies have just had their smallest gate of the season playing Edinburgh ( and losing) and were booed off. Sad that Richard Hibbard has just signed for them.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by Evans the nine on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:45 am

To be honest I don't think much of RRW's statement. A lot of it is pretty basic stuff and can be explained fairly easily and some of the them would suggestan answer involving "because there are too many regions to share their slice of the pie"

It doesn't need a Public Enquiry - just someone with an O-level in Maths and a quick look at the figures.

The regions need to look closer to home - why aren't they playingto full houses every week ? Missing internationals is too easy an answer — it isn't an issue for the Irish provinces.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by Evans the nine on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:52 am

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/site/index.html

AWJ has a silent protest — starting to affect the players. I can understand why some might want to get away until the dust settles
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:55 am

If AWJ's performance against Australia was effected by the dispute, then he should have dropped out of the team. In the same way he should withdraw from the Ospreys until his mind is totally focussed on his job. Refusing to sing the Welsh National Anthem is an insult to his Nation, not the W.R.U. management. It is also an insult to the spectators who have spent mega bucks on their day out.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:26 am

Scarlets look doomed too.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-25390697
Meanwhile the senior players have requested a meeting with Roger Lewis, he's told them he will consider their request!!!
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:38 am

I do believe that Gatland is talking out of his **** when he says the Welsh players will return in two years time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25410394
It's either that or he knows something else.
Hook and now Phillips have both denied that statement by their actions, or is it me that's delusional?
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:54 am

And this has put paid to any player who thinks he's negotiated a play for Wales clause.........http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25431795.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:28 am

I think the English Clubs may be heading for a revolt after Northampton were fined £60k for releasing George North for the Wales game v Australia. Surely common sense says that only three parties have an interest in this, Northampton, North, and the W R U .
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:44 pm

Well you would think that John...........I will comment only too readily.
There are two definite strands to this, those who side with the WRU most commonly exiles, and those who side with the regions, not entirely whole heartedly,AND it has to be said that in this country they are in the majority.
Players, coaches, administrators, commentaters and fans have all vented their spleen to various degrees, and the WRu have kept silent.
One question to Roger Lewis.........back in July you promised extra funding early in the season to help the regions, where is that money and why hasn't it been paid over?

Meanwhile the fans are planning big protests, if like the majority you dont attend games watch it on TV tonight,and this is AFTER meeting with Lewis and Co.
As to North, he has a contract with Northampton, it's a contract between himself and them. The Premier rugby have an agreement that foreign players can only be released during the IRB window, Wales play an extra game thus putting North outside the agreement AND that's why they have been fined £60,000
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:38 pm

It seems to me that Northampton R F C are a good bunch to work for. I wonder if they would sign up someone approaching 70 years old. !!!
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by Evans the nine on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:15 am

http://www.espn.co.uk/wales/rugby/story/209387.html

Johntywyn - one of the politicians is jumping onto the band wagon, but at least he is espousing a view similar to one you have previously stated.

That said it's not usually a good sign when they are appealed to or get involved.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:44 am

ETN that's the same Owen Smith who three years ago claimed to have secured enough funding to reinstate the disbanded Cletic Warriors.
Bottom line he sees that there is mileage in claiming that Pontypridd have been "shafted" his words, by the general rugby fraternity.
He should try going to Pontypool who really were shafted by Roger Lewis and co.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:59 am

What funding do the R.F.U. provide for the English Premiership and Championship sides ? The game in England must demand a huge injection of cash, there are far more clubs there spread over a wider area; and the R.F.U. income is possibly less than the W R U's from the M.S.

So if the English Clubs can survive with something to spare, why can't Wales make the books balance operating a club system. I have never liked regional rugby; as a born and bred Cardiffian I always put the interests of Cardiff R F C before those of Wales. Rugby support in Cardiff is poor because the team is called the Blues, those outside Cardiff are not interested because they see the team as the CARDIFF Blues. The same applies in Newport, and nobody in West Wales knows if the Ospreys belong to Neath or Swansea. The Scarlets have lost their
home at Stradey, and Llanelli rarely comes in the equation when the team is discussed.

My choice would be to scrap the Regions and return to Club Rugby, with the fully professional sides being Newport, Cardiff, Pontypool, Pontypridd, Bridgend, Swansea, Neath and Llanelli.
Semi professional sides would be Ebbw Vale and Aberavon.

The ultimate aim would be for these sides to play in the English leagues, but it would be unfair to base which league on this seasons performances. The 2014/15 season would be based on a domestic competition in Wales featuring all these clubs, and the English calendar would be adjusted so that each side could play a few friendlies against the Welsh Clubs. The abandonment of the Anglo Welsh and L.V. Cup would assist this. At the end of the 2014/15 season two sides would be demoted from the Premiership to Championship, and the four top teams from the Welsh League would be added, with the remaining sides joining the Championship. From the end of the 2015/16 season there would be three promotions and three demotions right through the structure.

Shout me down please if you think this is a ridiculous idea, including you Dancarreg; I will not be offended; but I do feel our discussions make more headway than the other talks that are currently taking place !!!
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by Evans the nine on Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:43 am

Funding - all figures were found on the web

RFU funding to Aviva premiership. An 8 year deal was worked out in 2008 giving the club's approx £110m over the period.  This is around £1.145M per club per year (12 clubs).

Championship teams get between £345,000 to £380,000 from the RFU per year on the current deal.

The WRU in their accounts, committed to give the regions £6.6M this year. This equates to £1.65M each.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:04 pm

Le Crunch time......http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25456431...today's the day.
Will the game be rent asunder?
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:08 pm

Evans the nine wrote:Funding - all figures were found on the web

RFU funding to Aviva premiership. An 8 year deal was worked out in 2008 giving the club's approx £110m over the period.  This is around £1.145M per club per year (12 clubs).

Championship teams get between £345,000 to £380,000 from the RFU per year on the current deal.

The WRU in their accounts, committed to give the regions £6.6M this year. This equates to £1.65M each.

Not strictly accurate the sum total that the regions get is £1.65M each but that is it. The Aviva have also negotiated extra for them selves through the heineken. a clear imbalance is there to see...quite naturally.
Johntywyn, while I'm not disagreeing I really cannot see the clubs returning, much as I would love it.
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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:11 pm

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Re: Beyond despair.......

Post by dancarreg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:50 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25468276

Does this prove that Roger Lewis is a liar or just mistaken?
Also where does Gatland figure in all this?
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