DISPAIR...............

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DISPAIR...............

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:06 pm

In the wake of shell shock after our latest cricket defeat down under - please note my reluctance to use the word 'Australia ' I have turned my attention to the Rugby Union League tables as displayed on B B C 's text service.

We are all familiar of course with the Pro 12 and English Premiership, and some may have noticed that only a miracle will prevent London Welsh being once again promoted to the elite at the end of this season. However, I have been studying the Welsh Premiership; and at a time when I am promoting a return to club rugby in Wales I am horrified to see that five of our country's greatest teams are languishing at the bottom of this league. Bottom team Neath have lost all nine matches so far, and the four teams above, Swansea, Aberavon, Bridgend and Newport them have only managed eight victories between them. This is hardly a pedigree to fund our regional sides, and makes very disappointing reading.

My understanding is that the four Welsh Regions are making an application to join the English Premiership; but to be honest the only side worthy of acceptance in my opinion are the Ospreys, and even they are having a desperate season in Europe. We have to be realistic, 2014 / 15 will see our regions decimated by the exodus of our leading players, and there is little reason to question the possibility that all four of our regions will occupy the bottom four positions in the Pro 12, just like their junior relatives do now in the W.P. In England Premier rugby is strong, and only a few clubs are consistently poor, of whom the worst Worcester has only managed to record one victory and that was against the Blues.

I have said this before, and I will now repeat; I think the Welsh Regions should play next season in the English Championship; this will give them the opportunity to rebuild and re-establish themselves. A successful season in this league will do far more good than a Worcester like one in the Premier. At the end of 2015 four teams should be promoted to the Premiership, and likewise four demoted to the Championship. From 2016 this will be reduced to two promotions and relegations. We have to look at the L.V. Cup and the Anglo Welsh competitions and ask the question are these really worth crowding up the season. Take these out of the scenario and it could make way for two larger top divisions; a third division could also be introduced to include some of the sides now finding success in our Premiership. The H.C. without English support is likely to see a withdrawal by the French, and probably at the last moment, leaving this competition with no interest or following whatsoever.

Northern Hemisphere rugby is about to see the biggest changes since the advent of professionalism. It is a great pity that no preparation was given to the decision to abolish boot money; we saw several clubs go into immediate insolvency just because their treasurers were only capable of preparing balance sheets in shillings and pence rather than £ 0000. Premiership and Championship football attracts crowds of up to 65,000 week in week out, no where does rugby enjoy that following, in fact there are no stadiums who could accommodate that figure. Rugby Union should be a semi professional game, less lucrative to the player and more affordable for the spectator.

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Re: DISPAIR...............

Post by Evans the nine on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:01 am

I certainly agree with the sentiment, but in fairness, if rugby had gone professional twenty years earlier, there would still be problems like this.

The Sports Industry has gone through a tremendous change since the advent of satellite tv / pay per view and the internet. The amounts of money changing hands is growing at an almost exponential rate due to the potential worldwide viewing audiences and the potential advertising revenue the broadcasters can make.

My worry about "club run" competitions is that the money goes to the club's, who keep10% for their shareholders dividends and the remaining money goes to the players. How will that benefit the grass roots?

At least if the money goes to the National Governing Bodies first, it gets top-sliced with a reasonable proportion going back into the amateur game.

Look at soccer as an example - how much money goes back to the grass roots ? Virtually nothing from the Premier League or the Champions League. Money only comes from the Fifa competitions via the NGBs. Something to think about.
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Post by dancarreg on Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:20 am

See ETN the thing is Johntywyn and i are a pair of older geezers, we both remember some nostalgia the "good old days".
True there were lots of not so good and a few bloody rotten old days, but the haze if time gives a rosier picture to the terraces of then, the rain, snow, ice and even fog. Rarely did a game get put off and then teams WERE full of local lads playing mainly for the pleasure.
But how times have changed, new stadia, new teams and new rules that all bedeville the game today, notwithstanding lots of crusty foreigners filling the teams all with odd accents and ideas.
Now the game really does look as though it's back to meltdown, yet again. Back to clubs, some cry, no new super teams other scream.
IronMan, Warrior,Steelmen, Crusader hype, hype and ever more of it, to be honest I did hope that this major upheaval was to be the last but apparently not.
Ryan jones now says he wants a British League ( whatever that is) but he does recognise that fans are getting ever more disallusioned and I can say with great surety that I can be described as thus.
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Re: DISPAIR...............

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:30 am

Aberavon nil. Bristol 78 ( 11 tries ) The rot accelerates !!!!
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Re: DISPAIR...............

Post by dancarreg on Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:02 am

Meeting today at WRU HQ, will it end up all smiles, will anything concrete come out of it, and will Sam Warburton be on his way to France?
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Re: DISPAIR...............

Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:26 am

A friend of mine has just sent me a text to say that he saw a guy like Sam with a pair of boots hanging round his neck getting on a ferry in Dover !!!
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Post by Evans the nine on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:53 am

Guys I'm not saying things are better nowadays, only that money and sports science (to a certain extent) is changing all of professional sport at a rate that is outstripping the ability of the administrators to adapt.
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Post by Old Parish on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:11 am

dancarreg wrote:Meeting today at WRU HQ, will it end up all smiles, will anything concrete come out of it, and will Sam Warburton be on his way to France?

From the point of view of contribution to the team, I would have fought harder to keep Copeland to be honest. The Blues will probably see Sam once or twice more this season if they are lucky.
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Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:15 am

Evans the nine wrote:Guys I'm not saying things are better nowadays, only that money and sports science (to a certain extent) is changing all of professional sport at a rate that is outstripping the ability of the administrators to adapt.


ADAPT and FUND
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Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:17 am

Old Parish wrote:
dancarreg wrote:Meeting today at WRU HQ, will it end up all smiles, will anything concrete come out of it, and will Sam Warburton be on his way to France?

From the point of view of contribution to the team, I would have fought harder to keep Copeland to be honest. The Blues will probably see Sam once or twice more this season if they are lucky.

Yes I quite agree with that comment, and based on the contributions last week of centres Daffydd Hewitt and Richard Smith, I would be happier to see them stick around than have Jamie Roberts back.
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Re: DISPAIR...............

Post by Evans the nine on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:18 pm

JOHNTYWYN wrote:
Evans the nine wrote:Guys I'm not saying things are better nowadays, only that money and sports science (to a certain extent) is changing all of professional sport at a rate that is outstripping the ability of the administrators to adapt.
               

ADAPT   and FUND

That's my issue with the club's getting to run their own competitions. The TV money goes direct to them and then on to transfer fees and wages.
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Re: DISPAIR...............

Post by dancarreg on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:46 pm

Here;s Jamie Roberts "take" on playing abroad.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25338511

I'd guess that some would call it selfish, and it is, but I understand why players would want to maximise their earnings, but it does nothing for the next generation. So selfish.
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Post by JOHNTYWYN on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:23 pm

Nothing much coming out of the adjourned meeting other than the W.R.U. threatening to withdraw finance to the Regions if a deal is not secured before the end of the month.

Perhaps this thread ought to be relabelled ' blackmail '. Do the W R U not understand that the whole future of Welsh Rugby's existence is in the balance.
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Post by dancarreg on Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:44 am

Sam's not going to Toulon............apparently.
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Post by Old Parish on Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:12 pm

dancarreg wrote:Sam's not going to Toulon............apparently.

Is this a surprise really?

Sam: "I want a king's ransom in salary, I am injured or playing for Wales 80 per cent of the time. I can probably play 5 or 6 games for you if you are lucky."
Toulon: "Thanks for coming Sam, we'll call you."
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Post by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:16 am

Gwyn Jones puts it in a nutshell, he could have been more doomladen, anyone who thinks that the game in Wales is not in crisis is not of this world.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/25374811
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Post by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:18 am

Priestland looks set to sign for Leicester Tigers, but this makes even more interesting reading.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/13/rhys-priestland-interview-scarlets-welsh-rugby

And does this enlighten anyone?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25382232

Meanwhile AWJ looks even more certain to leave, left out of the Ospreys team yesterday, with Ianto pulling out surely he would have been a natural starter?
Grapevine is also talking of another three NOT out of contract who have been given the green light to talk to other clubs.
Are we in a race to the bottom?
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Post by Old Parish on Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:28 am

dancarreg wrote:Priestland looks set to sign for Leicester Tigers, but this makes even more interesting reading.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/13/rhys-priestland-interview-scarlets-welsh-rugby

And does this enlighten anyone?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25382232

Meanwhile AWJ looks even more certain to leave, left out of the Ospreys team yesterday, with Ianto pulling out surely he would have been a natural starter?
Grapevine is also talking of another three NOT out of contract who have been given the green light to talk to other clubs.
Are we in a race to the bottom?

George North playing at 13 for Northampton in the Heineken Cup. I should think Gatland is OK with that, more experience in a position he might end up playing for Wales.
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Post by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:38 pm

UH? Team sheet says he played at wing and he scored a try, keeps that pool wide open but not for the bottom team.
42,000 to see that game, could a Welsh region ever match that? I doubt it.
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Post by dancarreg on Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:13 pm

Latest about Leigh Halfpenny, Rhys Preistland and some others..........http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10517573/Leigh-Halfpenny-wanted-by-Toulon-but-move-for-Sam-Warburton-is-ruled-out.html

According to other reports Warburton wanted £650,000 plus guarantees for training with Wales.

It now looks as though at least another six players will be off within the next few days, leaving all but Dan Biggar as the only Welsh player based in his home country.
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Post by Old Parish on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:22 pm

dancarreg wrote:UH? Team sheet says he played at wing and he scored a try, keeps that pool wide open but not for the bottom team.
42,000 to see that game, could a Welsh region ever match that? I doubt it.

He scored a try for sure, but unless I need to get over to Specsavers sharpish he played centre.
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Post by Old Parish on Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:48 pm

Just looked at the BBC site and they have North on the wing. Here are the teams that actually played:

Leinster Rugby 9 Northampton Saints 18
Date:2013-12-14

Leinster Rugby
15. Rob Kearney; 14. Dave Kearney, 13. Brian O'Driscoll, 12. Gordon D'Arcy, 11. Luke Fitzgerald; 10. Ian Madigan, 9. Eoin Reddan; 1. Jack McGrath, 2. Sean Cronin, 3. Mike Ross, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Mike McCarthy, 6. Rhys Ruddock, 7. Shane Jennings, 8. Jamie Heaslip (c)

16. Aaron Dundon, 17. Michael Bent, 18. Martin Moore, 19. Leo Cullen, 20. Kevin McLaughlin, 21. John Cooney, 22. Jimmy Gopperth 23. Zane Kirchner,

Northampton Saints
15. Ken Pisi; 14. Jamie Elliott, 13. George North, 12. Luther Burrell, 11. Tom Collins; 10. Steve Myler, 9. Lee Dickson; 1. Alex Waller, 2. Dylan Hartley (c), 3. Salesi Ma'afu, 4. Courtney Lawes, 5. Christian Day, 6. Calum Clark, 7. Tom Wood, 8. Samu Manoa

16. Mikey Haywood, 17. Ethan Waller, 18. Tom Mercey, 19. Sam Dickinson, 20. Phil Dowson, 21. Kahn Fotuali'i, 22. Glenn Dickson23. Tom Stephenson

The BBC are a disgrace nowadays, they just copy and paste stuff without checking much, if anything.
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Post by dancarreg on Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:13 am

Well that explains that , I did take my info from the Beeb, my bad........
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